The Cold Math of Securing Schools

Wrong again.
Hand grenades are legal but they are very expensive.

Hand grenades were regulated under the National Firearms Act ("NFA"), a federal law first passed in 1934 and amended by the Crime Control Act of 1968. The 1968 amendments made it illegal to possess "destructive devices," which includes grenades!
 
Hand grenades were regulated under the National Firearms Act ("NFA"), a federal law first passed in 1934 and amended by the Crime Control Act of 1968. The 1968 amendments made it illegal to possess "destructive devices," which includes grenades!

It is really easy to make an IED. Your point is moot.
 
Perhaps you forgot what you said....

"And no you can't break a window and reach in, security doors are made of steel with tiny wire reinforced windows and are keyed from both sides."

Do you need to take the "man, person, woman, camera, tv" test?

Yet the door opens from the inside when the latch bar is pressed.
Are you really this stupid?
 
Hand grenades were regulated under the National Firearms Act ("NFA"), a federal law first passed in 1934 and amended by the Crime Control Act of 1968. The 1968 amendments made it illegal to possess "destructive devices," which includes grenades!

Incorrect and you can even buy grenade launchers.
 
After a school shooter kills a bunch of kids, people intent on diverting attention from gun control have a tendency to focus on enhancing physical security at schools, by way of armed guards, armored access points, etc. It can seem heartless to focus on the cost of those things when kids are dying.... but that's what I'm going to do.

First, installing one armed guard at a school is unlikely to do anything. Someone intent on mass slaughter could simply walk up to the guard and gun him down before he even had his gun unholstered. It would just be another body on the pile. If you're going to make any real difference, you'd need at least two on duty, with a multiple-checkpoint setup, such that if you attack the guard at the first checkpoint, the second checkpoint gets locked down by a second guard (probably manning a security camera feed some distance away) and the attacker can't get in. That's the kind of setup you see at secure facilities.

So, what would it cost, per school, to have a setup like that? Assuming you're not comfortable with untrained minimum-wage goons, let's say $50,000 per guard per year, minimum, fully loaded (counting benefits). And let's say 2.5 guards per school (some extra to cover absences). There are 130,930 K-12 schools in the US. So, about $16.4 billion per year, plus however much you need for those security cameras, remote locking doors, and other retrofits. We'll conservatively estimate those are fairly cheap and the whole thing can cost just $20 billion per year.

OK. And how many lives will that save? Let's give it every benefit of the doubt and imagine it's perfectly effective -- that these guards manage to completely stop school shootings, while never accidentally shooting the wrong person. So, let's say about 36 lives saved per year, average:

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2019/07/us/ten-years-of-school-shootings-trnd/

OK, that's a cost-per-life-saved of about $556 million per life.

Now, you might be tempted to say a life is infinitely valuable, so that's well worth it. But, as a practical matter, that's just not how budgeting is done in other contexts.

For example, in the Bush years, if a proposed EPA rule cost over $3.7 million per anticipated life saved (e.g., efforts to reduce arsenic in drinking water), it was considered too expensive to be worth it. With Clinton, they were more liberal about it and put the threshold at $6.1 million:

https://www.americanprogress.org/ar...-costs-and-benefits-of-cost-benefit-analysis/

Obviously, even the higher of those numbers is VASTLY below the $556 million level we're talking about here.

Some studies suggest that any regulation that costs more than, say, $15 million per life saved will actually hurt income levels enough that such a regulation will indirectly cost more lives than it will save:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1465-7295.1999.tb01450.x
https://www.semanticscholar.org/pap...rall/d2010e118e2edcd1e2e0e99227af6047b66355e6

For example, people whose take-home pay is lower thanks to funding all this extra school security may skimp on vehicle maintenance or healthcare, and that will end up costing more lives than you're saving.

Some studies have put the number even lower, around $12 million:

https://law.vanderbilt.edu/files/archive/215_Value_of_Life_Legal_Contexts.pdf

The gap we're talking about is huge, between that hypothetical $12M-$15M/life point of being counter-productive, and the $556M/life we're talking about here.

Even if you think you can get all that benefit with only half as many guards with half the other security spending, we're still talking almost twenty times the cost-per-life-saved that studies say you can have before the cost is actually driving deaths UP indirectly.

Even if you're in the camp where money should be no object when it comes to saving the lives of kids, then spend those same billions on bigger subsidies for childhood healthcare, for instance, or regulations to make vehicles safer, or spending to make roads safer (more streetlights and guardrails, better signage), or enhanced childhood nutrition, etc.; you'd save many, many more lives of children:

https://books.google.com/books?id=L...ge&q="cost per life saved" guardrails&f=false

So, the approach of trying to prevent school shootings by way of more physical security is almost certainly a loser. Any spending in that area is likely to have a cost-per-life-saved so huge that we'd do better spending the same money any number of other places.... or not spending it at all.

Ridiculous hypothetical, which requires a moron who doesn't notice an armed individual approaching.
 
Schools, churches, malls, night clubs--nothing will be secure without a massive purge of right wing crackers as well as the cowardly (moderate) wing of the left.

Blaming guns is another example of not blaming the miscreants in our population, and we have so fucking many of both.
 
Schools, churches, malls, night clubs--nothing will be secure without a massive purge of right wing crackers as well as the cowardly (moderate) wing of the left.

Blaming guns is another example of not blaming the miscreants in our population, and we have so fucking many of both.

MEANWHILE LESS THAN 4% OF THE POPULATION, YOUNG, BLACK MALES, COMMIT OVER 50% OF TOTAL US MURDERS.

YEAH ,WE "GOTTA GET THOSE WHITIES!!!
 
As I just posted, we now learn through one of the attorneys that he school doors were locked. So much for your total bullshit about defensive responses impacting a criminals plan. Lets face it, all you have is BS to post.


UVALDE, Texas —
An exterior door at Robb Elementary School did not lock when it was closed by a teacher shortly before a gunman used it to get inside and kill 19 students and two teachers, leaving investigators searching to determine why, state police said Tuesday.

what it was not was propped open.
 
Regardless of where the money comes from, the issue is still the same: at a cost-per-life-saved anywhere even close to half a billion each, we'd do better spending the money on countless other things, or just refunding it to taxpayers.

lol.....cheap compared to hunting down all the guns and taking them away from people......even melting down 390 million guns would cost you a fortune.......
 
We justt witnessed an armed and trained police force fail, and you expect a barely trained, inexperienced teacher to succeed? We are far far better off enacting sensible gun laws that the folly you offer.
why do you want to barely train teachers......wouldn't it be smarter and safer to train them well?......
 
Which law, specifically, are you referring to?


Yet, by definition, every single shooting ever happened in a place that wasn't free of guns.

are you trying to tell us gun control laws are ineffective?.....gosh, who would have guessed murderers would break laws.........
 
Congratulations, you have just proposed that our children should be burned alive in schools since you have locked all the doors and made it impossible to exit without a key.

Fire codes do not allow for what you are proposing for the very real reason that doing what you proposed has resulted in deaths which resulted in changing the laws to require fire exits that can be easily opened.

why have lib'ruls never heard of fire exits?.......is it because they never leave their basements?
 
I've never heard of a security guard making $50k. Look at listings on Indeed. Guys with prior military experience might earn $15/hr if lucky. Unarmed guards might earn $11/hr.
 
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