TRUMP HAS AN ACE UP HIS SLEEVE - THE "JEFFERSON CARD"
- Thread starter Dachshund
- Start date
As long as you appreciate the culture, without resorting to caricature and stereotype, that is fine. My grandmother was a university educated woman, and her brothers were flag officers in the imperial army. Hardly hillbilly Cossacks.
As for myself, I prefer some of the old Cossack folk songs.
"The Constitution states that Pence “shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted.” The “shall” in the provision is an imperative command, unambiguously requiring the act be completed, making Pence’s role merely ceremonial."
https://lawandcrime.com/2020-electi...ly-counts-electoral-college-votes-on-jan-6th/
They never MADE it to court!!! geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessshhh
It's going through the Legislatures now. Wait till Wednesday, then pitch your fit.
Thanks, that was an interesting read.
EXACTLY! Pence will be the one with plenary power. He will either accept or NOT accept the legitimacy of the states' certificates.
Again, we'll see on Wednesday.
They never MADE it to court!!! geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessshhh
It's going through the Legislatures now. Wait till Wednesday, then pitch your fit.
yes, they went to court and judges threw some out and essentially ridiculed the others. They asked Trump's "lawyers" to show evidence of their claims. They had none. That is what the problem was and is. No proof at all.
Ypu are being a sucker for trump again. Will you ever catch on?
They never MADE it to court!!! geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessshhh
It's going through the Legislatures now. Wait till Wednesday, then pitch your fit.
You've created a false premise that the PA governor and SOS did something illegal, yet every time this was brought to a court it was dismissed. It's over. There's nothing trump or Pence can do to change this reality.
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.pamd.127057/gov.uscourts.pamd.127057.202.0_1.pdf
https://www.leagle.com/decision/infco20201116157
OMG. His position is strictly ceremonial. He's a reader, not a decider.
You haven't read anything on the subject. Or, the U.S. Constitution.
A vice president has plenary power to to decide the certificates.
The ideal situation in order to avoid this is for the legislatures from the 7 or so states in question to TAKE BACK the power that they constitutionally have in the first place
and make the decisions which their state governors and state ag's STOLE from them in this recent election. They got railroaded. It's a disqualifying and illegal action
that those guvs & "legs" did.
So, if you're pulling for a legitimate election result, you need to start writing and calling on those particular states' "legs" to meet and make the decisions themselves,
letting this go further down the tubes by their guvs & ag's.
The state "legs" get their power and rights from the FEDERAL US CONSTITUTION, not the state constitution.
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THE GUVS & AG'S STOLE THE PROPER ROLE OF THE STATE LEGISLATURES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BattleofHodow
New member
Nice song.
Well, you did say Poland - Lithuania should be subjected to scrutiny in response to me justing I'm a Polophile or appreciate of Poland.
Nice, do you think West Slavic peoples are without song & dance?
Like the Mazurka, Polka, Oberek, Polonaise & Krakowiak?
December 26, 2020
It's for Mike Pence to Judge whether a Presidential Election Was Held at All
By Ted Noel
On January 6, a joint session of Congress will open with Vice President Pence presiding as president of the Senate. His power will be plenary and unappealable. You heard that right. As president of the Senate, every objection comes directly to him, and he can rule any objection "out of order" or "denied." His task will be to fulfill his oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States and to ensure that the laws be faithfully executed. This is a high standard of performance, and V.P. Pence will have two choices. He can roll over on "certified" electors, or he can uphold the law.
Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution gives state legislatures "plenary authority" as enunciated in Bush v. Gore. This is key, since the counting of votes is discussed in Article II, the 12th Amendment, and 3 USC 15. To this we must add the history of counting and objections recounted by Alexander Macris (here and here). Put bluntly, it's as clear as mud. Add to that the fact that the contested states of Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, New Mexico, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin have sent dueling slates of electors to D.C. This means that the V.P. has to decide how he will handle the situation when two sealed envelopes are handed to him from any of those states.
Macris points out that in 1800, even with constitutional deficiencies in Georgia, Thomas Jefferson blithely counted defective electoral votes from Georgia, effectively voting himself into the presidency. This demonstrates that the president of the Senate is the final authority on any motions or objections during the vote-counting. There is no appeal. That doesn't mean there won't be any outrage. Whatever Pence does, people will be angry. But what does the law demand?
Seven contested states clearly violated their own laws. Rather than list the facts, which have been detailed in multiple articles, we must consider the following:
An election is a process of counting votes for candidates. Only valid, lawful votes may be counted. A valid lawful vote is:
Cast by an eligible, properly registered elector as prescribed by laws enacted by the state Legislature.
Cast in a timely manner, as prescribed by laws enacted by the state Legislature.
Cast in a proper form as prescribed by laws enacted by the state Legislature.
Any process that does not follow these rules is not an election. Anything that proceeds from it cannot be regarded as having any lawful import.
Most commentators suggest that a process of collecting pieces of paper with marks on them is an election regardless of errors, omissions, and even deliberate malfeasance. This is a mistake. Imagine a golf tournament where every bad shot by one player gets a do-over, but the competing player has to follow USGA rules in detail. One player gets to drop freely out of hazards, but the other has to tackle every embedded ball as it lies. The result is a travesty.
The same thing applies to elections. If there are a handful of improper votes, we can suggest that there was in fact an election, perhaps tainted, but the election wasn't materially harmed. But when the people charged with managing the election decide to ignore the law, whatever process they supervise is not the process defined by the law. Therefore, it is not an election.
This leaves V.P. Pence with a dilemma. He is a gentleman who regards our governmental traditions with a degree of reverence, so he will be reluctant to take any bold action. But as an honorable man, faced with massive illegality, he must act to protect the law. Consider how things might go down as the two closed envelopes from Georgia are handed to the V.P. Rather than opening them, he says:
In my hand are envelopes purporting to contain electoral votes from Georgia. They are competing for consideration, so it is essential that I consider the law that governs this. That law, according to the Legislature of Georgia and Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution is the Georgia statute that includes procedures for signature-matching on absentee ballots, a requirement that all absentee ballots be first requested by a legitimate voter, and that election monitors be meaningfully present at all times while votes were counted.
The Georgia secretary of state, who is not empowered by the U.S. Constitution to make changes to election law, entered into a Consent Decree that gutted these protections enacted by the Georgia Legislature. The processes that he prescribed and were ultimately followed were manifestly contrary to that law. Further, the State of Georgia, in unprecedented concert with other states, suspended counting of ballots in the middle of the night, covering its conspiracy with a false claim of a "water main break." We now know from surveillance video that many thousands of "ballots" were counted unlawfully in the absence of legally required observers.
Finally, the State of Georgia, under the authority of secretary of state Brad Raffensperger, a non-legislative actor, used fatally flawed Dominion voting machines that have been demonstrated to be unreliable. In testing, the error rate of Dominion machines has exceeded 60%, far in excess of legal limits. They are designed to facilitate fraud without creating the legally required paper trail. This alone is far more than enough to swing an election.
Since the state of Georgia has failed to follow the election law established by its legislature under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, it has not conducted a presidential election. Therefore, no "presidential electors" were appointed in Georgia. Further, "electors" "certified" by non-legislative actors pursuant to this process are in fact not "presidential electors." The competing slate of "electors" is similarly deficient, having not been elected through a presidential election.
Therefore, the chair rules that Georgia has not transmitted the votes of any presidential electors to this body. Georgia presents zero votes for Donald Trump and zero votes for Joseph Biden.
The central point is that the VP, as the presiding officer and final authority, has the unquestionable authority to declare that the states in question have not conducted presidential elections. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth, but no one has the authority to override his decision.
The statement says nothing about who might or might not have "won" the contested states. Rather, by not following their own laws, as enacted by their own legislatures, they have violated Article II, Section 1. Thus, they have not conducted an election, and their results are void.
If the votes of all seven contested states are registered as zero, President Trump will have 232 votes, and Joe Biden will have 222. The 12th Amendment says, "[T]he votes shall then be counted[.] ... The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President[.]"
In plain language, Donald Trump will be re-elected, since he has a majority of the actual electoral votes. There will be no need to involve the House of Representatives to resolve a contingent election.
Richard Nixon chose not to contest the 1960 election because he felt that winning that way would lead to an ungovernable country. If V.P. Pence does this, that same argument might be made. But is the country governable even now? Blue states such as California, Oregon, Washington, New York, New Jersey, and Michigan are already operating in an openly lawless manner with their "emergency" "COVID-related" restrictions. Their denial of the civil rights of law-abiding citizens is horrific. Their refusal to do basic policing and law enforcement is a recipe for open war. How much worse would things be if the V.P. lived up to his oath and upheld the law?
https://www.americanthinker.com/art..._a_presidential_election_was_held_at_all.html
It's for Mike Pence to Judge whether a Presidential Election Was Held at All
By Ted Noel
On January 6, a joint session of Congress will open with Vice President Pence presiding as president of the Senate. His power will be plenary and unappealable. You heard that right. As president of the Senate, every objection comes directly to him, and he can rule any objection "out of order" or "denied." His task will be to fulfill his oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States and to ensure that the laws be faithfully executed. This is a high standard of performance, and V.P. Pence will have two choices. He can roll over on "certified" electors, or he can uphold the law.
Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution gives state legislatures "plenary authority" as enunciated in Bush v. Gore. This is key, since the counting of votes is discussed in Article II, the 12th Amendment, and 3 USC 15. To this we must add the history of counting and objections recounted by Alexander Macris (here and here). Put bluntly, it's as clear as mud. Add to that the fact that the contested states of Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, New Mexico, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin have sent dueling slates of electors to D.C. This means that the V.P. has to decide how he will handle the situation when two sealed envelopes are handed to him from any of those states.
Macris points out that in 1800, even with constitutional deficiencies in Georgia, Thomas Jefferson blithely counted defective electoral votes from Georgia, effectively voting himself into the presidency. This demonstrates that the president of the Senate is the final authority on any motions or objections during the vote-counting. There is no appeal. That doesn't mean there won't be any outrage. Whatever Pence does, people will be angry. But what does the law demand?
Seven contested states clearly violated their own laws. Rather than list the facts, which have been detailed in multiple articles, we must consider the following:
An election is a process of counting votes for candidates. Only valid, lawful votes may be counted. A valid lawful vote is:
Cast by an eligible, properly registered elector as prescribed by laws enacted by the state Legislature.
Cast in a timely manner, as prescribed by laws enacted by the state Legislature.
Cast in a proper form as prescribed by laws enacted by the state Legislature.
Any process that does not follow these rules is not an election. Anything that proceeds from it cannot be regarded as having any lawful import.
Most commentators suggest that a process of collecting pieces of paper with marks on them is an election regardless of errors, omissions, and even deliberate malfeasance. This is a mistake. Imagine a golf tournament where every bad shot by one player gets a do-over, but the competing player has to follow USGA rules in detail. One player gets to drop freely out of hazards, but the other has to tackle every embedded ball as it lies. The result is a travesty.
The same thing applies to elections. If there are a handful of improper votes, we can suggest that there was in fact an election, perhaps tainted, but the election wasn't materially harmed. But when the people charged with managing the election decide to ignore the law, whatever process they supervise is not the process defined by the law. Therefore, it is not an election.
This leaves V.P. Pence with a dilemma. He is a gentleman who regards our governmental traditions with a degree of reverence, so he will be reluctant to take any bold action. But as an honorable man, faced with massive illegality, he must act to protect the law. Consider how things might go down as the two closed envelopes from Georgia are handed to the V.P. Rather than opening them, he says:
In my hand are envelopes purporting to contain electoral votes from Georgia. They are competing for consideration, so it is essential that I consider the law that governs this. That law, according to the Legislature of Georgia and Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution is the Georgia statute that includes procedures for signature-matching on absentee ballots, a requirement that all absentee ballots be first requested by a legitimate voter, and that election monitors be meaningfully present at all times while votes were counted.
The Georgia secretary of state, who is not empowered by the U.S. Constitution to make changes to election law, entered into a Consent Decree that gutted these protections enacted by the Georgia Legislature. The processes that he prescribed and were ultimately followed were manifestly contrary to that law. Further, the State of Georgia, in unprecedented concert with other states, suspended counting of ballots in the middle of the night, covering its conspiracy with a false claim of a "water main break." We now know from surveillance video that many thousands of "ballots" were counted unlawfully in the absence of legally required observers.
Finally, the State of Georgia, under the authority of secretary of state Brad Raffensperger, a non-legislative actor, used fatally flawed Dominion voting machines that have been demonstrated to be unreliable. In testing, the error rate of Dominion machines has exceeded 60%, far in excess of legal limits. They are designed to facilitate fraud without creating the legally required paper trail. This alone is far more than enough to swing an election.
Since the state of Georgia has failed to follow the election law established by its legislature under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, it has not conducted a presidential election. Therefore, no "presidential electors" were appointed in Georgia. Further, "electors" "certified" by non-legislative actors pursuant to this process are in fact not "presidential electors." The competing slate of "electors" is similarly deficient, having not been elected through a presidential election.
Therefore, the chair rules that Georgia has not transmitted the votes of any presidential electors to this body. Georgia presents zero votes for Donald Trump and zero votes for Joseph Biden.
The central point is that the VP, as the presiding officer and final authority, has the unquestionable authority to declare that the states in question have not conducted presidential elections. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth, but no one has the authority to override his decision.
The statement says nothing about who might or might not have "won" the contested states. Rather, by not following their own laws, as enacted by their own legislatures, they have violated Article II, Section 1. Thus, they have not conducted an election, and their results are void.
If the votes of all seven contested states are registered as zero, President Trump will have 232 votes, and Joe Biden will have 222. The 12th Amendment says, "[T]he votes shall then be counted[.] ... The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President[.]"
In plain language, Donald Trump will be re-elected, since he has a majority of the actual electoral votes. There will be no need to involve the House of Representatives to resolve a contingent election.
Richard Nixon chose not to contest the 1960 election because he felt that winning that way would lead to an ungovernable country. If V.P. Pence does this, that same argument might be made. But is the country governable even now? Blue states such as California, Oregon, Washington, New York, New Jersey, and Michigan are already operating in an openly lawless manner with their "emergency" "COVID-related" restrictions. Their denial of the civil rights of law-abiding citizens is horrific. Their refusal to do basic policing and law enforcement is a recipe for open war. How much worse would things be if the V.P. lived up to his oath and upheld the law?
https://www.americanthinker.com/art..._a_presidential_election_was_held_at_all.html
Scrutiny was my word choice for inceased attention to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (PLC) by scholars and in our college level European history classes. PLC was the largest nation state in medieval Europe, and was innovative in proto-democratic and social tolerance traditions.
It is ridiculous that American versions of European history virtually ignore PLC, Byzantine Empire, et al.
Most of what we call "European" history classes, are really just the history of Northwestern Europe: Britain, with a little bit of France, Germania, and Dutch Republic thrown in for spice.
Pence has no powers but reading the votes. https://www.npr.org/2020/12/22/949134479/congress-role-in-election-results-heres-what-happens-jan-6 desperate trumpies are believing what they want, not what is real. The reds have the ability to make a simple ceremonial event into a Trump circus. But they can not change the votes.
Just like Jefferson...
^ The bolded is opinion, not fact. And Pence does not have the power to decide the election over the will of the voters.
Then why are scrambling right now to have their rightful meetings and take back their rightful powers given to them by our Constitution?