Trump says these documents prove his false claims of election fraud. Here's what they really say

Dutch Uncle said:
Disagreed since it remains a large part of the Democratic agenda. Banning ARs is silly. It's a stepping stone by the gun-grabbing Left to ban all semi-automatic weapons including the #1 killer in the US: the 9mm pistol. Most "gun deaths" are suicides which only require a single shot.

Banning ARs does little to save the lives of murder victims or suicides.

ucr.fbi.gov

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

ucr.fbi.gov
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Keeping large capacity mags and the rifles associated with them out of the hands of whack-jobs would cut back on the mass shooting thing.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
No doubt banning cars would also save lives. The problem, IMHO, is that banning freedoms is not the best path to preserving freedom in America.
Looking at the specifics of those shootings is a clue to a better path; namely solving gang violence and better mental health care. Resolving those issues would create a better America instead of a more restricted one.
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If you wanna treat cars like guns then lets treat guns like cars. Licensing, registration, and insurance should be mandatory.
 
Crepitus said:
"the left" isn't undercutting the second amendment, they are lobbying for some common sense.
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Screaming "Hell yes, we're going to take your AR-15, your AK-47" and the recent ruling in NJ say different. :)

FWIW, I support reason and common sense. Banning guns to won't stop 50,000 suicides. Banning handguns would save some spur-of-the-moment suicides but as Robin Williams, Kate Spade and thousands of teens prove, it won't stop them all. Democrats only seem to care about the ones which use a gun, about half. Their priorities of guns over mental health prove what they really want.

In 2001, suicide was the third leading cause of death among persons aged 10--19 years (1). The most common method of suicide in this age group was by firearm (49%), followed by suffocation (mostly hanging) (38%) and poisoning (7%) (1).

Assualt weapon ruling
A federal appeals court on Friday struck down New Jersey's decades-old ban on so-called assault weapons and large-capacity magazines, ruling that the state's restrictions on AR-15-style rifles and magazines holding more than 10 rounds violate the Second Amendment.

The 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in a 10-5 decision that New Jersey's restrictions cannot survive the historical test established by the Supreme Court's 2022 New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen, which held that modern gun restrictions should follow "this nation's historical tradition of ⁠firearm regulation."
 
Crepitus said:
Keeping large capacity mags and the rifles associated with them out of the hands of whack-jobs would cut back on the mass shooting thing.
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Which would save more lives per year: banning ARs and magazines or banning private car ownership?

One reason why I don't vote for Democrats nor Republicans is that both parties believe they can ban their way to American freedom.
 
Jade Dragon said:
Teaching martial arts works too, for the pacifists who are protectors and not combatants.
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A good skill, but difficult against Trump's trigger-happy secret police.

awue8d.jpg
 
Dutch Uncle said:
A good skill, but difficult against Trump's trigger-happy secret police.

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Your meme is 100% bogus. We on the left often have guns and don't have a problem using them when there's a need. We don't, however, approve of military-style arms for mass slaughter in the hands of any yahoo that wants them. You see, we on the left don't deal in absolutes. Freedom doesn't mean so much freedom to do things that you are hazardous to your own populace. Rules and regulations protect.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Screaming "Hell yes, we're going to take your AR-15, your AK-47" and the recent ruling in NJ say different. :)

FWIW, I support reason and common sense. Banning guns to won't stop 50,000 suicides. Banning handguns would save some spur-of-the-moment suicides but as Robin Williams, Kate Spade and thousands of teens prove, it won't stop them all. Democrats only seem to care about the ones which use a gun, about half. Their priorities of guns over mental health prove what they really want.

In 2001, suicide was the third leading cause of death among persons aged 10--19 years (1). The most common method of suicide in this age group was by firearm (49%), followed by suffocation (mostly hanging) (38%) and poisoning (7%) (1).

Assualt weapon ruling
A federal appeals court on Friday struck down New Jersey's decades-old ban on so-called assault weapons and large-capacity magazines, ruling that the state's restrictions on AR-15-style rifles and magazines holding more than 10 rounds violate the Second Amendment.

The 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in a 10-5 decision that New Jersey's restrictions cannot survive the historical test established by the Supreme Court's 2022 New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen, which held that modern gun restrictions should follow "this nation's historical tradition of ⁠firearm regulation."
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You do realize that historically most cannon were privately owned, right? Is this a door you want opened?
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Which would save more lives per year: banning ARs and magazines or banning private car ownership?

One reason why I don't vote for Democrats nor Republicans is that both parties believe they can ban their way to American freedom.
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Like I already said, treat cars like guns and treat guns like cars. Operator licensing, registration, and insurance.
 
Jade Dragon said:
Your meme is 100% bogus. We on the left often have guns and don't have a problem using them when there's a need. We don't, however, approve of military-style arms for mass slaughter in the hands of any yahoo that wants them. You see, we on the left don't deal in absolutes. Freedom doesn't mean so much freedom to do things that you are hazardous to your own populace. Rules and regulations protect.
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Crepitus said:
Like I already said, treat cars like guns and treat guns like cars. Operator licensing, registration, and insurance.
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Good luck with pushing the same plan the Democrats have been pushing for over 30 years with nothing to show for it except moving backwards.

No doubt both of you understand the phrase "pissing up a rope". You want to ban guns, I want better mental health control as an avenue to keeping guns out of the hands of mentally ill people. Which do you think is better? The plan that hasn't worked since Bill Clinton was getting hummers in the Oval Office or a plan that would save tens of thousands of lives every year? :thinking:

When Plan A isn't working, my best advice is to go with Plan B....but that's me. :)
 
Dutch Uncle said:
Good luck with pushing the same plan the Democrats have been pushing for over 30 years with nothing to show for it except moving backwards.

No doubt both of you understand the phrase "pissing up a rope". You want to ban guns, I want better mental health control as an avenue to keeping guns out of the hands of mentally ill people. Which do you think is better? The plan that hasn't worked since Bill Clinton was getting hummers in the Oval Office or a plan that would save tens of thousands of lives every year? :thinking:

When Plan A isn't working, my best advice is to go with Plan B....but that's me. :)
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If you want to live a life thinking so and so wants to do this, that's on you. Personal realities are a MAGA trait, though, and it doesn't look good on you. Banning AR's is not banning guns; it's banning anything military-level from civilian use. FYI, we had one school shooting back in the Clinton years, and it was a nationwide shock. Now they are a dime a dozen. Tell me how banning military arms didn't work.
 
Crepitus said:
Not true at all, but I do support vetting law enforcement a bit more carefully.
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Me too. How do you force an authoritarian state to vet their secret police more carefully? Pink pussy hat protests? Making the news by getting shot multiple times in the face or back? :thinking:

Again, I favor the path of Sun Tzu; make them afraid to push it.

FWIW, I think it's only a matter of time before Americans start shooting back. Trump will label it an insurrection, but State Governors may use the NG to express their disagreement. The faceoff will be historical. :)
 
Jade Dragon said:
If you want to live a life thinking so and so wants to do this, that's on you. Personal realities are a MAGA trait, though, and it doesn't look good on you. Banning AR's is not banning guns; it's banning anything military-level from civilian use. FYI, we had one school shooting back in the Clinton years, and it was a nationwide shock. Now they are a dime a dozen. Tell me how banning military arms didn't work.
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Supporting the Constitution is not MAGA. MAGA, like others who seek to weaken our Constitution and install an authoritarian state, are against the Constitution. All who took the oath and seek to overthrow our Constitution and Republic are both traitors and enemies of the Constitution.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
I'm guessing that this will blow back on Trump since he both asked Russia to interfere in the 2016 election and the Mueller investigation proved that the Russians did try to interfere in the election.

Additionally, I believe this is a pretense for Trump to try to steal the Midterms. Americans should resist all attempts to subvert our elections, either by domestic enemies to the Constitution or foreign ones.

Those on the Left complain a lot about fascism in our federal government yet they also support undercutting the Second Amendment which allows Americans to defend themselves against tyranny.

Sun Tzu said "The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting."

Using Sun Tzu's philosophy, the best way to stave off tyranny is to convince the tyrants they would lose in the end....if not end up like Benito Mussolini, if they try to take our rights, shred our Constitution and/or overthrow our Republic.

Two ways to do that are:
1) resist such actions through the First Amendment
2) dissuade bad actors from taking our rights by presenting a credible force of an armed citizenry per the Second Amendment.

foreignpolicy.com

Did the Brutal Death of Mussolini Contribute to Hitler’s Suicide?

Seventy years ago on Tuesday, partisans in the backwoods of northern Italy summarily executed Benito Mussolini after they happened to foil the dictator’s attempted escape…
foreignpolicy.com foreignpolicy.com
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Only you would try to offset the focus of he OP with some tired ass NRA bullshit. Stay focused.
 
What Trump did not do is present a SINGLE piece of new, demonstrable and testable evidence that is something that could be presented in a court.

What Trump did was recycle the same prior failed arguments that they would say before going in to court, and then Trump lawyers in court, to avoid lying to the court, would say to the judge 'we are not hear to claim fraud'... and then once the judge dismissed the case they would leave and go to the tv cameras and again claim fraud.
 
QP! said:
What Trump did not do is present a SINGLE piece of new, demonstrable and testable evidence that is something that could be presented in a court.

What Trump did was recycle the same prior failed arguments that they would say before going in to court, and then Trump lawyers in court, to avoid lying to the court, would say to the judge 'we are not hear to claim fraud'... and then once the judge dismissed the case they would leave and go to the tv cameras and again claim fraud.
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He's prepping to declare the massive losses next November on voter fraud so he can seize more ballots and alter the elections.
 
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Jade Dragon said:
Your meme is 100% bogus. We on the left often have guns and don't have a problem using them when there's a need. We don't, however, approve of military-style arms for mass slaughter in the hands of any yahoo that wants them. You see, we on the left don't deal in absolutes. Freedom doesn't mean so much freedom to do things that you are hazardous to your own populace. Rules and regulations protect.
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Bravo 👏
 
Phantasmal said:
The left does not undercut the Second, that’s MAGA propaganda, the left simply want reasonable gun laws. I don’t want mentally ill people owning weapons. I don’t want domestic abusers owning guns. I want back ground checks.
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*sigh* That gun-grabber shit is so old and tired. Well said.
 
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