Proposed Debate Question

[StoneByStone]

Hello StoneByStone,



Those are jobs that wages are prevented from becoming too low because they are regulated by the minimum wage law.

The problem with minimum wage is that it causes business-owners to fire people and cut hours so that they can pay less. I much rather have wealth redistributed through programs such as free healthcare. And with less third world immigrants, wages would still go up, because demand for manual labor people would be higher.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Celticguy,

Because they will do it for less.

Less than minimum wage?

Wages already have a floor. They can't go any lower.

Plenty of jobs only pay minimum wage. They can't pay any less or it's against the law.

Citizens may not want to do this work but when its all they are qualified to do, they do but for higher pay.

Grunt work that ordinarily pays minimum wage doesn't pay people any more just because they are US citizens. Those kind of jobs pay what they pay. If you don't like it then don't work there. Like conservatives say. Make better decisions. Get an education and a better job if you want to get paid more, right?

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Jack,

StoneByStone: "Letting in immigrants from the third world results in lower wages for Americans. Will you try to reduce third world immigration, and if not, then how do you plan on keeping wages from falling?"
PoliTalker: "I'm not sure I agree with the premise. How does letting unskilled laborers into the USA, who usually do migrant farm work, landscaping or janitorial work that Americans don't want to do, cause lower wages for a nurse or a teacher?"
Jack: "The job Americans won't take: Arizona looks to Philippines to fill teacher shortage"
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...chools-low-pay"

1. You are wrong on your assumption that Third World Labor just takes 'farm work". [I didn't say that]
2. You are wrong that the Minimum Wage of $7.25/hr. is a 'Living Wage'. [I didn't say that, either]
3. You are wrong that "Immigration does not lower wages in the USA". [If so you've failed to show why]

Let's take it to the Next Step: Will Automation, Robotics, and Artificial Intelligence 'lower Wages' ... or put American Labor out of Work?
(this is what that asian guy Yang is bringing up at the Debates)

I agree with Yang. He's right. But he's a little ahead of his time. I don't see automation replacing labor any time soon. True AI still does not exist. When it is finally realized, THEN we will face big changes.

I agree we will need a UBI then. There will not be enough work for everybody to have a job. (Actually there are not currently enough well-paying jobs for everyone.) It will get to the point where most of the populace will not be able to live off their income, so instead of expanding the dole to absurd levels and having so many government workers simply managing that, it makes more sense to just stop trying to pretend there is enough work for everybody and accept that we have to tax the rich just to pay the poor an income they can live on. But that won't be a problem because by the time we reach that situation the rich will be so rich they will be able to easily afford it. I don't think capitalism will ever die completely, but it will experience big changes when most labor is displaced by AI.

I just don't think we are as close to what Yang is concerned about as he thinks we are. I like him. I could totally vote for him. I would much rather have Yang as the nominee than Biden.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello StoneByStone,

The problem with minimum wage is that it causes business-owners to fire people and cut hours so that they can pay less. I much rather have wealth redistributed through programs such as free healthcare. And with less third world immigrants, wages would still go up, because demand for manual labor people would be higher.

OK, so Trump has kicked out millions of immigrants already. IF what you're saying is true we should see wages rising. But that's not happening. Why not? Maybe immigration isn't the reason wages are depressed at all.

The reason wages are depressed is not because of immigration. It is because that's what capitalism does. Capitalism always seeks to keep costs low and profits high. Capitalism only creates jobs when it has to, and only for as long as it needs that function. Capitalism uses innovation to eliminate jobs. That's why wages are depressed. It's because our government is legally corrupted by big money. Corporate America and Wall Street control our government with campaign donations, lobbying and revolving doors for high priced people to go back and forth between government and industry.

Big money gets what it wants. The rest of us get the left-overs. THAT'S why working doesn't pay more than it does.

Corruption is legal in America:

 

[Celticguy]

Hello Celticguy,



Less than minimum wage?

Wages already have a floor. They can't go any lower.

Plenty of jobs only pay minimum wage. They can't pay any less or it's against the law.



Grunt work that ordinarily pays minimum wage doesn't pay people any more just because they are US citizens. Those kind of jobs pay what they pay. If you don't like it then don't work there. Like conservatives say. Make better decisions. Get an education and a better job if you want to get paid more, right?

Supply and demand.
Illegals will work for min wage but when there are none or speaking english is required the supply becomes limited and employers have to pay more. Fast food around here has to pay considerably more than min to fill slots.

 

[StoneByStone]

Hello StoneByStone,

OK, so Trump has kicked out millions of immigrants already. IF what you're saying is true we should see wages rising. But that's not happening. Why not? Maybe immigration isn't the reason wages are depressed at all.

Immigration is only one of the reasons wages are low. It's also Capitalism and the 1% being so strong that they're able to set regulations that benefit themselves instead of the working-class. At one point, the Left understood that both Capitalism and Globalism were terrible for the working-class. Unfortunately, today the Left has been hijacked by (((Globalists))) who claim mass immigration is a strength.
And of course, the Capitalist 1% likes mass immigration. More immigrants means more customers and cheaper labor.

 

[Moosakofsky]

For Dem candidates:

"Republicans have left us with a trillion dollar budget deficit, spending that simply does not get paid for, and instead is tacked right onto the debt. Do you have a plan to clean up this Republican budget mess by paying down the deficit before you begin to pay for any new programs you propose, such as health care reform?"

What do you want to hear asked?

Post here the questions you wish would be asked during the next debate.

Moderator: Are you for free health care for illegal immigrants paid for by tax paying citizens?
anonymoose: Oh wait, wasn't that one already asked?

 

[TTQ64]

For Dem candidates:

"Republicans have left us with a trillion dollar budget deficit, spending that simply does not get paid for, and instead is tacked right onto the debt. Do you have a plan to clean up this Republican budget mess by paying down the deficit before you begin to pay for any new programs you propose, such as health care reform?"

What do you want to hear asked?

Post here the questions you wish would be asked during the next debate.

Tax the wealthy, religion and corporations to pay down the debt, pay for health care and pay for free education. amongst other things.

It's because of them and their tax breaks we are in the situation were in.

Time to pay up. That's the only answer that will be acceptable.

 

[TTQ64]

The point being, as Stone was pointing out, Immigrants lower Wages for Americans. If you can replace American Workers with Third World Workers, Wages will stay stagnant or not increase.
One of the reasons American Companies go Overseas is because of CHEAP LABOR.

Black Americans aint' picking lettuce for minimum wage.....slavery is over.

You people think immigrants are taking jobs away from Blacks who should be in the fields.........I don't fall for your games.

Pay a fair wage of 25.00 an hour and you'd get americans to work those jobs.

You people want slave labor.

 

[Moosakofsky]

Democrats in general are very disheartened about the success of the U.S. economy. What is your plan to fuck it all up?

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Celticguy,

Supply and demand.
Illegals will work for min wage but when there are none or speaking english is required the supply becomes limited and employers have to pay more. Fast food around here has to pay considerably more than min to fill slots.

That is an indication that Min Wage is too low, not that immigrants are what's keep wages low.

What's keeping wages too low is the super-rich super-greedy power junkies who bought off our government and make all the laws favor them.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello StoneByStone,

Immigration is only one of the reasons wages are low. It's also Capitalism and the 1% being so strong that they're able to set regulations that benefit themselves instead of the working-class. At one point, the Left understood that both Capitalism and Globalism were terrible for the working-class. Unfortunately, today the Left has been hijacked by (((Globalists))) who claim mass immigration is a strength.
And of course, the Capitalist 1% likes mass immigration. More immigrants means more customers and cheaper labor.

And there you struck on the essence of it.

They are not just taking money out of the economy. They live here. They are spending money in the economy and creating demand. By being here, they raise the GDP.

 

[StoneByStone]

Hello StoneByStone,



And there you struck on the essence of it.

They are not just taking money out of the economy. They live here. They are spending money in the economy and creating demand. By being here, they raise the GDP.

But by being here, they are also lowering the demand for low-skilled workers, which brings down wages. Just goes to show that having a high GDP doesn't mean people are living well. China and India have awful living standards, despite having two of the highest GDPs in the world.

 

[Darth Omar]

Hello StoneByStone,



And there you struck on the essence of it.

They are not just taking money out of the economy. They live here. They are spending money in the economy and creating demand. By being here, they raise the GDP.

But by ‘being here’ they are taking spots in the workforce that would be held by actual citizens.

Ironically, mostly minorities.

 

[Celticguy]

Hello Celticguy,



That is an indication that Min Wage is too low, not that immigrants are what's keep wages low.

What's keeping wages too low is the super-rich super-greedy power junkies who bought off our government and make all the laws favor them.

Illegals are, illegal. So much for that.
Had you suggested they made the government NOT enforce the law you might have had a point.

 

[Nordberg]

Democrats in general are very disheartened about the success of the U.S. economy. What is your plan to fuck it all up?

Why don't we go back to what Bush did? Obama had to fix it and Trumpy takes all the credit. What has Trump done to improve the economy? His tax cut did nothing but exacerbate the wealth gap and increase the debt by 2 trillion. That is what all Repub presidents do. You guys believe silly memes and do no homework at all.

 

[Jack]

TTQ: "Pay a fair wage of 25.00 an hour and you'd get americans to work those jobs."
Jack: Yes. That is my point. It's all about the MONEY.

TTQ: "You people think immigrants are taking jobs away from Blacks who should be in the fields.........I don't fall for your games."
Jack: After Hurricane Katrina, there were literally THOUSANDS of Jobs just doing Clean-Up. You know who did the Work? ... Third World Labor. For some reason, our Negroes were shipped out of the City.

PS: Not to be nosy, but just exactly WHEN are you leaving for the Motherland?

Black Americans aint' picking lettuce for minimum wage.....slavery is over.

You people think immigrants are taking jobs away from Blacks who should be in the fields.........I don't fall for your games.

Pay a fair wage of 25.00 an hour and you'd get americans to work those jobs.

You people want slave labor.

 

[Darth Omar]

Why don't we go back to what Bush did? Obama had to fix it and Trumpy takes all the credit. What has Trump done to improve the economy? His tax cut did nothing but exacerbate the wealth gap and increase the debt by 2 trillion. That is what all Repub presidents do. You guys believe silly memes and do no homework at all.

The tax cut increased federal revenues.

Government spending is the problem—pretty much always.

 

[Darth Omar]

Hello Celticguy,



That is an indication that Min Wage is too low, not that immigrants are what's keep wages low.

What's keeping wages too low is the super-rich super-greedy power junkies who bought off our government and make all the laws favor them.

Are any of your friends or acquaintances small business owners lol?

The ones in my circle would be put in the business of going out of business, in short order, if they were forced by the government to pay their workers $20/hour.

A healthy economy has an abundance of small business owners and people willing to take the risk in starting them up. It democrats ever succeed in increasing the minimum wage in the manner they intend to, it will stifle entrepreneurship which will in turn stifle the economy.

If not outright strangle it.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello StoneByStone,

But by being here, they are also lowering the demand for low-skilled workers, which brings down wages. Just goes to show that having a high GDP doesn't mean people are living well. China and India have awful living standards, despite having two of the highest GDPs in the world.

The living standards in China and India are low because of wealth inequality, not immigration. And as the GDP increases so does the living standard. Having a high GDP is key to rising living standards when government ensures equitable wealth redistribution.