Archaeology of the New Testament

[Into the Night]

If you create a table for report, term paper, or PowerPoint slide there better be some sensible and organized way it is presenting information, otherwise your bosses, clients, or teachers are going to wonder about your ability to communicate information.

PowerPoint is a great way to put people to sleep.

The periodic table is quite specifically arranged in a way that illustrates the organized and periodic way the electrical and nuclear properties of the atomic world vary. That's how we were able to make predictions about the properties of elements we hadn't even discovered yet.

Man created the periodic table.
Man created the model of the atom.
Man named each and every element.
Atomic is not a world.
There are no predictions about what does not exist.
The Universe is not an atom.
The Universe is not organized.

The orderly, periodic, and organized electrical and nuclear properties of the atomic elements existed 13.5 billion years before humans appeared, and they will continue to persist hundreds of billions of years after we are gone. They don't need a table to tell them that.

Man created the periodic table.
Man created the model of the atom.
Man named each and every element.
The Universe is not an atom.
The Universe is not organized.

 

[Into the Night]

Yes, it is what man does. Man takes things that are disorganized and makes them look organized.

Adams, protons, neutrons and electrons do what they do and man makes it look organized.

Again, nature does what it does. H2O is the life blood of the planet. H202 is not. That's not example of organization or lawfulness in science.

They are examples of organization in science. Science is a set of falsifiable theories, each and every one of which is created by Man.

It just is what it is and man explains it / organizes it after the fact.

No. Theories of science are created by Man.

As my other post once again detailed, and you ignored, the universe and all of its contents are anything but well designed or organized.

This part is true.

 

[Cypress]

Yes, it is what man does. Man takes things that are disorganized and makes them look organized.

"The periodic law is the foundational principle of chemistry stating that the physical and chemical properties of the elements recur in a systematic, predictable pattern when they are arranged by increasing atomic number. It explains the predictable trends seen throughout the modern periodic table." - AI summary

Adams, protons, neutrons and electrons do what they do and man makes it look organized.

You are now making quasi-religious claims that man is the center of defining reality.

Reality exists whether humans are around or not.

The fundamental reality of the period law of the chemical elements, and the mathmatical principles underlying the physical laws of nature always existed, whether humans were around or not

The whole reasons scientists practice their profession is because they believe they can get a glimpse of the ultimate truth of physical reality independent of opinion or convention.

Again, nature does what it does. H2O is the life blood of the planet. H202 is not. That's not example of organization or lawfulness in science. It just is what it is and man explains it / organizes it after the fact.

I have no idea what your point is. Water and hydrogen peroxide are two totally different molecules with fundamentally different properties. I have no idea why this is proof that physical reality is unorganized, random, and unlawful.

As my other post once again detailed, and you ignored, the universe and all of its contents are anything but well designed or organized.

Your example of black holes was not convincing, nor was your example of molar teeth.

The truth and ultimate reality lays at a far deeper level than that. It lays at the level of why complex atomic matter and a universe exist at all.

 

[Cypress]

Man created the periodic table!

Was the creation of the table a reflection of our discovery of the natural orderly, predictable, and periodic nature of the electrical and nuclear properties of the atomic elements?

Or is your position that the table is just a random or arbitrary collection of chemical symbols?

 

[Melchizedek=Tecumseh]

Go learn what the 'uni-' means in 'Universe'.

No

 

[IBDaMann]

Right, so humans have been on the planet for hundreds of thousands of years and that detail wasn't just pulled from the "internet".

* Which humans do you believe have been on the planet for hundreds of thousands of years?
* You did, in fact, pull that "detail" off the internet.

 

[Into the Night]

"The periodic law is the foundational principle of chemistry

No such law in chemistry. Buzzword fallacy.

stating that the physical and chemical properties of the elements recur in a systematic, predictable pattern when they are arranged by increasing atomic number. It explains the predictable trends seen throughout the modern periodic table." - AI summary

Ah. AI slop. It is wrong yet again.

Man named each and every element.
Man created the model of the atom.
Man created the periodic table.
Man created all the assignments on the periodic table.
The Universe is not an atom.

You are now making quasi-religious claims that man is the center of defining reality.

Nothing religious about it. Man defines reality. Each person's reality is as unique to him as a fingerprint. There is no 'absolute reality'. Go learn what 'reality' means and why it is defined the way it is.

Reality exists whether humans are around or not.

Nope. Man creates reality.

The fundamental reality

There is no such thing. Buzzword fallacy.

of the period law of the chemical elements,

No such law. Buzzword fallacy.

and the mathmatical principles underlying the physical laws of nature always existed,

Man created mathematics.
Man created every theory of science.
Man creates reality.
Man created the model of the atom.
Man created the periodic table of the elements.
Man created the name of each and every element.
Man assigned each and every element it's place in the table.

whether humans were around or not

No humans, no math.
No humans, no science.
No humans, no reality.
No humans, no periodic table.
No humans, no chemistry.

The Universe is not an atom.
The Universe is unorganized.
There is no 'law of the Universe'.

The whole reasons scientists practice their profession is because they believe they can get a glimpse of the ultimate truth of physical reality independent of opinion or convention.

Science is not 'ultimate truth'.
Science is not 'reality'.
Science is not a 'convention'.
Science is a set of falsifiable theories, nothing more, nothing less.

Man created science.
Man created mathematics.
Man creates reality.

The Universe is not an atom.
The Universe is unorganized.

I have no idea what your point is. Water and hydrogen peroxide are two totally different molecules with fundamentally different properties. I have no idea why this is proof that physical reality is unorganized, random, and unlawful.

Go learn what 'reality' means.
Man creates reality.
Man named water.
Man named hydrogen peroxide.
Man created chemistry.

The Universe is not a molecule.
The Universe is unorganized.
There is no 'law of the Universe'.

Your example of black holes was not convincing, nor was your example of molar teeth.

The Universe is not a black hole.
The Universe is not a tooth.

The truth and ultimate reality lays at a far deeper level than that. It lays at the level of why complex atomic matter and a universe exist at all.

The Universe is not a 'truth'.
Man creates reality. Go learn what 'reality' means.
There is no such thing as 'complex atomic matter'. Buzzword fallacy.
The Universe is not an atom.

The Universe is unorganized.
There is no 'law of the Universe'.

 

[Into the Night]

Was the creation of the table a reflection of our discovery of the natural orderly, predictable, and periodic nature of the electrical and nuclear properties of the atomic elements?

Or is your position that the table is just a random or arbitrary collection of chemical symbols?

Man created he periodic table.
Man named each element on the periodic table.
Man assigned each position of every element on the periodic table.
Man created the model of the atom.
Man created the word 'electrical'.
Man created the word 'nuclear'.
All elements are atomic.
Man created chemistry.
Man created mathematics.

The Universe is not an atom.
The Universe is not a molecule.
The Universe is not chemistry.
The Universe is not mathematics.

The Universe is unorganized.
There is no 'law of the Universe'.

 

[Into the Night]

No

Then remain illiterate.

 

[Into the Night]

* Which humans do you believe have been on the planet for hundreds of thousands of years?
* You did, in fact, pull that "detail" off the internet.

Which itself it hilarious, considering the internet has only been around for much less than 100 years!

 

[Cypress]

Man created he periodic table!
Man named each element on the periodic table!
Man assigned each position of every element on the periodic table!
Man created the model of the atom!

So according to you, science is not attempting to discover reality as it actually is.

Science is just arbitrarily categorizing things, but it's not giving us any real insight into the actual nature of physical reality.

You atheists are surprisingly anti-science, and cynical about the whole scientific project to learn the truth about nature.


The periodic table is one of the greatest achievements in the history of science.
Not because it is arbitrary collection of alphabetical symbols on a table.

It's famous for being our representation of the orderly organization of the electrical and nuclear properties of the atomic world.

 

[Melchizedek=Tecumseh]

Then remain illiterate.

Nah!

 

[ZenMode]

So? What has that got to do with the age of the Earth?

Derp.
Derp.

 

[ZenMode]

He doesn't know what 'lawful' or 'rational' even mean.

All of it is rational.
Go learn what 'rational' means.

Derp.

Go learn what 'reality' means while you're there.

Derp.

 

[ZenMode]

They are examples of organization in science. Science is a set of falsifiable theories, each and every one of which is created by Man.

I'm not talking about things man has done. Man didn't make water or the chemical compound that is water. Man didn't make atoms, molecules, protons, neutrons, etc.

 

[ZenMode]

Your example of black holes was not convincing, nor was your example of molar teeth.

This is all that matters. I gave example after example of flaws in the design of the universe, Earth and life on Earth and, for you, none are convincing because you aren't interested in seeing anything except what you want to see, which is a lawful, rational and organized design of everything and that design, whether you admit it or not, is the fairytale being that is the center of your religious beliefs.

You explain away the many design flaws just as you explain away, in your mind, all of the contradictions in the Bible and the fact that the behavior of your particular religious sky wizard is anything but as described.

 

[ZenMode]

* Which humans do you believe have been on the planet for hundreds of thousands of years?

I don't even know what this means. Do you want their names and locations?

* You did, in fact, pull that "detail" off the internet.

Correct and, as you already know, not all "Internet" was the same.

 

[Cypress]

In summary: you are sticking to the lawful/rational angle and ignoring how, at every level, there are so many flaws in the universe, earth, humans, animals, etc.

Explain precisely why religious belief requires the universe to be perfect and flawless, and why it has to accord specifically with your definition of perfection.

Also, explain exactly why your definition of 'perfection' is the correct one. You seemed to think black holes are a flaw in the universe. We don't know enough about black holes to jump to declarative statements like that. It's possible the gravitational energy of black holes play an integral role in the net energy balance of the universe.

And yes, you ARE saying a conscious being created it because a conscious being is required to do the planning and designing of what you call lawful and rational.

Rational agency, an eternal logos, a universal spirit, et al. implies some kind of higher consciousness that is beyond human understanding.

What's rational about our primary light source causing cancer? What's rational about earthquake/tsunami-causing faults in the Earth? What's rational about weather patterns that cause floods on day, followed by years of drought? What's rational about degrading eyesight and hearing? What's rational about designing human eyes backwards, causing a blind spot in every human? What's rational about giving a spine and knee design to bipeds that was actually designed for quadrupeds? Why give limb regrowth to a handful of creatures but not humans?

None of that really has anything to do with fine tuning as cosmologists and astronomers discuss it. You're not operating at the deepest level of reality. That is where the curious convergence of the universal physical constants and the net energy balance of the universe is balanced on a razors edge to allow complex matter to exist.

As for life, anyone who had taken college level cellular biology and neuroscience classes is flabbergasted by the elegance and irreducible complexity of cells, neurons, and information-bearing molecules like DNA.

I need you to explain exactly why religious belief requires the human body to be perfect, ideal, and flawless, in accord with your definition of perfection.

You are seeing what you want to see.

I'm basing all my inferences on physics and abductive logic.

The only question is which inference is more reasonable:

That the material and rational universe somehow came from the immaterial, inanimate, and irrational.

Or that the rational universe could only be caused the rational.

 

[Cypress]

* Which humans do you believe have been on the planet for hundreds of thousands of years?

99.99999 percent of the time, any discussion of humans on this forum is about our species homo sapiens, and it is so manifestly self evident nobody bothers to ask about it or play word games.

* You did, in fact, pull that "detail" off the internet.

Anyone who reads National Geographic, popular science articles, books has been aware for decades that the evidence is homo sapiens first evolved a few hundred thousand years ago.

 

[ZenMode]

Explain precisely why religious belief requires the universe to be perfect and flawless, and why it has to accord specifically with your definition of perfection.

Religious beliefs require only that you've been convinced of a specific sky wizard.

I never said anything about perfection. Never even used perfection. YOU claim that your creator rationally and lawfully designed the universe down to the molecular level and, in order to maintain that belief, you ignore or explain away all of the flaws in your creators designs. I listed some, but I could list more.

You explain away the fact that 99.99999999999% percent of the universe in uninhabitable in a standard "Christian" way, which is implying that your God created the Earth to be special, with the clear message being that your God created the Earth for his creation, mankind, so that he could have some kind of relationship with his creation.

Also, explain exactly why your definition of 'perfection' is the correct one.

Never used perfection.

You seemed to think black holes are a flaw in the universe. We don't know enough about black holes to jump to declarative statements like that. It's possible the gravitational energy of black holes play an integral role in the net energy balance of the universe.

Just more "explaining away", just like you do with all of the Biblical contradictions and mistakes. This is how religious people maintain faith.

Rational agency, an eternal logos, a universal spirit, et al. implies some kind of higher consciousness that is beyond human understanding.

Right and YOU are claiming that consciousness intentionally micro-designed the universe, down to the atomic level....while ignoring all of the terrible design flaws that exist....which you either ignore or explain away (see black holes and "we don't know enough")

None of that really has anything to do with fine tuning as cosmologists and astronomers discuss it. You're not operating at the deepest level of reality. That is where the curious convergence of the universal physical constants and the net energy balance of the universe is balanced on a razors edge to allow complex matter to exist.

It ALL has to do with fine tuning! Every single example does. In your world of faith, your God/creator designed a universe that is 99.9999999999% uninhabitable in order to have a relationship with his creation - man. And, part of that fine tuning, your god intentionally made humans eyes backwards, made their primary light source cancer-causing, gave us too many teeth, a flawed spine and leg design and put us on a planet rife with design flaws that will kill his creation by the billions, over time.

As for life, anyone who had taken college level cellular biology and neuroscience classes is flabbergasted by the elegance and irreducible complexity of cells, neurons, and information-bearing molecules like DNA.

DNA that is prone to mutation resulting in things like autism and Downs Syndrome.

I need you to explain exactly why religious belief requires the human body to be perfect, ideal, and flawless, in accord with your definition of perfection.

Religious belief doesn't require anything except faith and, in this case, seeing what you want to see and explaining away what is inconvenient to your beliefs, something you have shown to be GREAT at doing!

I'm basing all my inferences on physics and abductive logic.

The only question is which inference is more reasonable:

That the material and rational universe somehow came from the immaterial, inanimate, and irrational.

Like I've said over and over, it's far more honest to say "I don't know" than manufacture fairytale creatures.

Or that the rational universe could only be caused the rational.

Do you want me to AGAIN list all of the irrational design decisions made by your creator.....So you can explain them away....again?