Archaeology of the New Testament

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IBDaMann said:
* Which humans do you believe have been on the planet for hundreds of thousands of years?
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ZenMode said:
Do you want their names and locations?
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That would be fine.

ZenMode said:
... that detail wasn't just pulled from the "internet".
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IBDaMann said:
* You did, in fact, pull that "detail" off the internet.
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ZenMode said:
Correct and, as you already know, not all "Internet" was the same.
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Too funny!
 
Cypress said:
99.99999 percent of the time, any discussion of humans on this forum is about our species homo sapiens, and it is so manifestly self evident nobody bothers to ask about it or play word games.
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Why are you getting so defensive? Why are you pivoting? Instead, you should be explaining how you and he know, with certainty, about the unobserved past. Feel free to become defensive when your omniscience fallacies come under attack because you have nothing else.

Cypress said:
Anyone who reads National Geographic, popular science articles, ...
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... is in a world of hurt.

Cypress said:
... has been aware for decades that the evidence is homo sapiens first evolved a few hundred thousand years ago.
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You still haven't answered the question. Why should any rational adult adopt your conclusions about the unobserved past? ... because you read it on the internet? Is that why?
 
ZenMode said:
Translation: I'm not attempting to have a serious conversation, I am only trolling.
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Too funny! I directly answered your question, leaving you stumped ... therefore I am trolling. Awesome. You can't make this shit up.

Have you yet figured out that you've been conned by the warmizombie congregation? Have you figured out that there never was any such thing as a global climate? Have you yet realized that the ocean isn't rising? Have you realized yet that Climate actually can't violate thermodynamics or Stefan-Boltzmann?

Have you yet figured out that the best that anyone can do regarding the unobserved past is to speculate wildly, and that claiming knowledge is an omniscience fallacy? Have you yet realized that speculation taken from Wikipedia, Reddit or elsewhere on the internet isn't any more accurate than simply pulling it out of your azz?
 
Cypress said:
Explain precisely why religious belief requires the universe to be perfect and flawless, and why it has to accord specifically with your definition of perfection.

Also, explain exactly why your definition of 'perfection' is the correct one. You seemed to think black holes are a flaw in the universe. We don't know enough about black holes to jump to declarative statements like that. It's possible the gravitational energy of black holes play an integral role in the net energy balance of the universe.


Rational agency, an eternal logos, a universal spirit, et al. implies some kind of higher consciousness that is beyond human understanding.

None of that really has anything to do with fine tuning as cosmologists and astronomers discuss it. You're not operating at the deepest level of reality. That is where the curious convergence of the universal physical constants and the net energy balance of the universe is balanced on a razors edge to allow complex matter to exist.

As for life, anyone who had taken college level cellular biology and neuroscience classes is flabbergasted by the elegance and irreducible complexity of cells, neurons, and information-bearing molecules like DNA.

I need you to explain exactly why religious belief requires the human body to be perfect, ideal, and flawless, in accord with your definition of perfection.

I'm basing all my inferences on physics and abductive logic.

The only question is which inference is more reasonable:

That the material and rational universe somehow came from the immaterial, inanimate, and irrational.

Or that the rational universe could only be caused the rational.
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Religious belief starts ,with the Spirit world in a mess ,from Satan and a third of the Angels in rebellion.
 
IBDaMann said:
Too funny! I directly answered your question, leaving you stumped ... therefore I am trolling. Awesome. You can't make this shit up.
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It is too funny. You made a retarded request and got an appropriate response and now you're trying to pretend it wasn't a retarded request.
 
ZenMode said:
Says the idiot asking for the name and address for people alive a hundred thousand years + ago?
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Says the idiot who offered the names and addresses of people who have supposedly been alive for hundreds of thousands of years. You can't make this shit up.

Even if you were to change your mind and become willing to engage in a serious discussion, the best you could offer would be irrational raving.

How's Climate Change coming along? I notice that Climate hasn't performed any of your miraculous physics violations lately. Has it all stopped?
 
ZenMode said:
Thanks for proving my point....again.
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ZenMode said:
Erp-a-derp.
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ZenMode said:
Translation: I'm not attempting to have a serious conversation, I am only trolling.
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ZenMode said:
It is too funny. You made a retarded request and got an appropriate response and now you're trying to pretend it wasn't a retarded request.
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ZenMode said:
Says the idiot asking for the name and address for people alive a hundred thousand years + ago?

Epic
Fail
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You aren't making a point.
 
ZenMode said:
Religious beliefs require only that you've been convinced of a specific sky wizard.

I never said anything about perfection. Never even used perfection. YOU claim that your creator rationally and lawfully designed the universe down to the molecular level and, in order to maintain that belief, you ignore or explain away all of the flaws in your creators designs. I listed some, but I could list more.

You explain away the fact that 99.99999999999% percent of the universe in uninhabitable in a standard "Christian" way, which is implying that your God created the Earth to be special, with the clear message being that your God created the Earth for his creation, mankind, so that he could have some kind of relationship with his creation.

Never used perfection.
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When you complain there are flaws, you are implying there is a bar to meet for an ideal, perfect, or flawless (choose your word) standard your mind has arbitrarily set up.

I don't see black holes, eyes, or wisdom teeth as flaws.

When I look around or study Earth and the universe I am awed by the spectacle, and marvel at the idea it even exists at all.

You look at Earth, life, the universe and you see flaw, mistake, and/or ugliness.

We have two different worldviews, and yours is supported by opinion and personal preference. Not by detached and dispassionate facts.
ZenMode said:
Just more "explaining away", just like you do with all of the Biblical contradictions and mistakes. This is how religious people maintain faith.

Right and YOU are claiming that consciousness intentionally micro-designed the universe, down to the atomic level....while ignoring all of the terrible design flaws that exist....which you either ignore or explain away (see black holes and "we don't know enough")

It ALL has to do with fine tuning! Every single example does. In your world of faith, your God/creator designed a universe that is 99.9999999999% uninhabitable in order to have a relationship with his creation - man. And, part of that fine tuning, your god intentionally made humans eyes backwards, made their primary light source cancer-causing, gave us too many teeth, a flawed spine and leg design and put us on a planet rife with design flaws that will kill his creation by the billions, over time.

DNA that is prone to mutation resulting in things like autism and Downs Syndrome.

Religious belief doesn't require anything except faith and, in this case, seeing what you want to see and explaining away what is inconvenient to your beliefs, something you have shown to be GREAT at doing!

Like I've said over and over, it's far more honest to say "I don't know" than manufacture fairytale creatures.

Do you want me to AGAIN list all of the irrational design decisions made by your creator.....So you can explain them away....again?
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All your doing is listing a set of flaws from somebody you read on the internet decided somehow proved a universe pregnant with flaw, mistake, ugliness.

That's just a subjective worldview and a philosophical opinion.

Black holes, retinas, and mistakes in genetic replication at the level of the nucleus are unconvincing of the atheistic worldview - i.e., nothing exists but inanimate matter and energy.

I study physics and cosmology in some depth, and come away marveling at how the universe physical constants and net energy of balance of the universe converge on the edge of a razor to allow atomic matter and an enduring universe to even exist.
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IBDaMann said:
Says the idiot who offered the names and addresses of people who have supposedly been alive for hundreds of thousands of years. You can't make this shit up.

Even if you were to change your mind and become willing to engage in a serious discussion, the best you could offer would be irrational raving.

How's Climate Change coming along? I notice that Climate hasn't performed any of your miraculous physics violations lately. Has it all stopped?
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A serious discussion that begins with you asking for the humans that were alive 300,000 years ago, right? If you recall, I asked what you were looking for with that request and THEN sarcastically asked if you wanted name and locations knowing that it would be impossible to provide it.

So, again, minus the sarcasm, what exactly are you looking for with your request?
 
Cypress said:
When you complain there are flaws, you are implying there is a bar to meet for an ideal, perfect, or flawless (choose your word) standard your mind has arbitrarily set up.
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No, it's not about perfection, though it should be since the all-powerful creator of everything has every option at his disposal.

It is about fine tuning away at LEAST the obvious, deadly flaws since your god, again, created a planet, in .0000000000000000000000000000000001% of the universe, specifically to have a relationship with his creation - mankind.


Cypress said:
I don't see black holes, eyes, or wisdom teeth as flaws.
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You won't see anything as flaws. You don't see earthquakes and tsunamis, which literally kill your god's creation by the millions, as a flaw. You don't see the fact that our primary light source gives us cancer as a flaw. You don't see breathing and eating, which also kills your god's creation, as a flaw.

You, with a straight fact, will claim this godly fine tuning and then ignore ALL of the examples of how fine tuning is lacking and killing the very being that your god created the universe/earth to have a relationship with.


Cypress said:
When I look around or study Earth and the universe I am awed by the spectacle, and marvel at the idea it even exists at all.
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We all are....
Cypress said:
You look at Earth, life, the universe and you see flaw, mistake, and/or ugliness.
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I see them where they obviously exist. You don't see them despite the fact that they obviously exist. You do that because you want to believe in a god.
Cypress said:
We have two different worldviews, and yours is supported by opinion and personal preference. Not by detached and dispassionate facts
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Says the person teaching a Masters Class in denial and confirmation bias.
Cypress said:
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All your doing is listing a set of flaws from somebody you read on the internet decided somehow proved a universe pregnant with flaw, mistake, ugliness.
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I'm listing obvious flaws. Some I already knew about and others I found on the internet. They are all still valid flaws for people looking at the situation objectively.
Cypress said:
That's just a subjective worldview and a philosophical opinion.

Black holes, retinas, and mistakes in genetic replication at the level of the nucleus are unconvincing of the atheistic worldview - i.e., nothing exists but inanimate matter and energy.

I study physics and cosmology in some depth, and come away marveling at how the universe physical constants and net energy of balance of the universe converge on the edge of a razor to allow atomic matter and an enduring universe to even exist.
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Lots of paragraphs to deflect and explain away what you don't want to see.
 
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