Do you support ground troops in Iran?

Damocles said:
So your argument is: They are not the same thing until Jarod says they are, because.

Jarod: These things are the same.
Damocles: Demonstrates that they are not.
Jarod: Well, I am saying they are the same thing because I want them to be.
Damocles: That is dishonest. (Demonstrates again they are not the same thing).
Jarod: Lots of Neocons were rejected by MAGA, but that means they are the same because I say so!

You sir, have done exactly what I predicted. You will continue to repeat it, until you think people believe you. However, the only people who believe you are the folks that want it to be so... So, Cypress....
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My point is that the ideology and the people are seperate.
There are many who previously identified as a NeoCon, and now are Trumpers, the ideology really does not matter to them.
So you are correct that if the NeoCon ideology is what defines who you support, you are not a Trumpper.
But if your ideology does not define who you support you were a neocon and are now a Trumpper.

I think most people on this board are the type where ideology does not define who they are .

Every person I know who was a neocon is now a Trumpper.

(I want to point out that you had to make a pretend made up conversation to make the discussion support your silly claim.)
 
Cypress said:
MAGA morons will support and defend absolutely anything and everything their bloated Messiah says or does.
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'MAGA morons will support and defend absolutely anything and everything their bloated Messiah says or does... and if their bloated Messiah switches a complete 180 degrees the day after, they will switch and support that too, while defending it as consistent.'

Just adding to your post a key missing piece. :}}
 
Damocles said:
I do not believe that they are. Neo-cons and MAGA are different things. MAGA drew some folks from the left... Neo-cons never did.
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While true, it is the people he "drew from the left and the independents' that largely reject this NeoCOn adventurism so the point of the core NeoCon base being the same ones who supported the Iraq wars and the idea of the 'US as Worlds Policeman', ARE the same people, mostly.
 
Damocles said:
Again, this pretends that things like Liz Cheney's rejection never happened, that the ideas and actions of these two groups are very different. I think you want to conflate them in people's heads and that you will repeat it constantly in the hopes that you will be successful at this, but it is demonstrably false in how these people voted. You and I both know it is dishonest, but only one of us cares about honesty.
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it is not pretense. It is a proper understanding of the situation, something you clearly lack.

Liz Cheney was not kicked due to not being NeoCon enough. She would make Lindsey Graham and John Bolton look like doves in pursuit of re-establishing all these NeoCon policies back.

Liz Cheney was kicked due to voting to impeach Trump, plain and simple and you not knowing makes you uninformed and if you know it (which you do) then you are just being dishonest and trying to use it as spin.

To try and say, as you are, that Liz being kicked from the party is proof this is not 'mainly the same people who supported the Iraq war', is just dishonest to its core.
 
QP! said:
'MAGA morons will support and defend absolutely anything and everything their bloated Messiah says or does... and if their bloated Messiah switches a complete 180 degrees the day after, they will switch and support that too, while defending it as consistent.'

Just adding to your post a key missing piece. :}}
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Yes, MAGA has turned flip flopping into an art form
 
Damocles said:
Damo is here defining things. Words mean things.
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but you forgot about bait and switch.

when you promise one thing and deliver another its a deception, not a language issue.


he promised maga and delivered neocon.

his apparent final resting state is neocon douchebag. like Bush. like the clintons.

just another evil pussbag.
 
Ichabod Stain said:
but you forgot about bait and switch.

when you promise one thing and deliver another its a deception, not a language issue.


he promised maga and delivered neocon.

his apparent final resting state is neocon douchebag.
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And yet, they still support him.
 
T. A. Gardner said:
No, doing nothing is. Eventually, Iran left to their devices WILL get nuclear weapons. They want them and have the means to build them given time to do it.

Once they have nuclear weapons, it isn't the threat of their use on Israel that's the issue. Israel can defend themselves and Iran starting a regional nuclear war buys them nothing politically.

What nukes do give them is an ability to close the Strait of Hormuz or control it permanently. This gives them regional control over the Persian sea and they could become a pirate state demanding say $1 million per passage from any commercial ship wanting to enter or leave. Sure, over time, alternatives would happen, but shipping will still need to move through the strait.
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You know the WH web site still has this press release posted right?

"... “The devastating US strike on Fordo destroyed the site’s critical infrastructure and rendered the enrichment facility inoperable. We assess that the American strikes on Iran’s nuclear facilities, combined with Israeli strikes on other elements of Iran’s military nuclear program, has set back Iran’s ability to develop nuclear weapons by many years. ..."
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None of us can speak to the future with certainty but when you know for CERTAIN YOU HAVE MANY YEARS, before Iran can even begin to pose a threat again, that means you have MANY YEARS to continue to try and put them in the box with continued harsh sanctions and other means, while keeping military intervention as a last resort if needed again. Clearly if in MANY YEARS from now, Iran had unburied and reconstituted it program to the point it was NEARING threat again, they could bomb it back into oblivion gaining many more years of safety.
 
Cypress said:
Yes, MAGA has turned flip flopping into an art form
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I call it the one true good thing Trump has done, which is exposing how empty, hypocritical and devoid of ethics the magat base truly is.

I feel some people truly believed that even if you disagreed with them, they operated on true positions of 'belief and their view of morals'.

We now KNOW that is all bullshit.

When Dem's have power next we will again see these magats decry 'debt as the reason to not expand the social safety net, or invest in American jobs', and we will see them again PRETEND most of their positions are true to them.

But we all must remember this time and what Trump exposed which is everything they say is empty BS they would do the exact opposite of as soon as a new magat leader emerges who steers them in a new direction.

We must NEVER take magat complaints seriously or as if genuine again.
 
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